totient: (justice)
[personal profile] totient
We sure are seeing the difference between a European Worldcon and a US one this weekend.

Date: 2015-04-05 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
This is the most obscure and enigmatic post I've seen on LJ all year. What does the title mean?

Date: 2015-04-06 03:54 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ron_newman
are those two names, "Sad Puppies" and "Social justice Warriors", taken from some book, short story, comic book, movie, or other medium?

SJWs in particular sound like they should be a DC Comics superhero ensemble.
Edited Date: 2015-04-07 08:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-04-07 04:46 pm (UTC)
tb: (literacy)
From: [personal profile] tb
Although I have long since tired of calcified fandom in general and those who identify as "Libertarian" in particular, I think the puppy agenda goes well beyond tiresome and annoying.

I was under the impression that this year's nomination numbers broke last year's record largely due to the organized slate campaign. Unaffiliated Loncon members were eligible to nominate this year too but presumably not as motivated.

I think where the geographic difference may show up is in the voting. There's been plenty of on-line buzz (e.g. Pretty Terrible, Making Light, and Whatever) about the nominations, and plenty of people saying they're going to buy supporting memberships and vote No Award above anything on the slates. I've also heard that Sasquan is currently being swamped with membership requests to the point of asking people to wait until next week (an eternity in Internet time). Whether those saying they will join and vote actually do so in large-enough numbers to effectively neutralize the slate remains to be seen. I assume by now you've seen the posts like this one about sorting out the nominees.

In the rumor-mill department I've seen speculation that Helsinki in 2017 is somehow behind all this because Castalia House is a Finnish company. I don't know how many people are believing or spreading this idea.

Date: 2015-04-13 07:33 pm (UTC)
paradoox: (Default)
From: [personal profile] paradoox
I'm pretty sure that neither Helsinki in 2017 nor DC in 2017 have anything to do with this.

Nor do I think this really has anything to do with the Worldcon being in London last year.

I think the Sad Puppies are faction that was been growing for a while and they have finally reached critical mass.

And to use this whole thing as a justification for voting for Helsinki is just comically sad (and reeks of desperation).

People should vote for what they think is going to be the best Worldcon just like they should vote for the best work in a Hugo Category even if they were on the Sad Puppies slate.

Date: 2015-04-06 03:39 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] bricoleur
Would it really make a difference though? The Sad Puppies managed to logroll a bigger slate this year than last in London but I assumed that was more about landing Breitbart coverage (which led more GamerGate-type prats to jump into the pool) than geographic location. They've been trying to make this work for three years now and it's always seemed like an Internet rallying of supporting memberships rather than actual attendees. (Does Worldcon release the breakdown of attending to supporting members voting on each Hugo category? That would be some interesting reading.)

Date: 2015-04-06 04:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] bricoleur
Normally I'd agree (that trolls are cheap) but between the Breitbart rabble-rousing and this being a repeat performance of what happened with the London nominations, this might be a special case. Vox Day and Larry Correira got on the ballot last year by rallying supporting votes with Sad Puppies II; they would have lost anyway but my understanding was there were also a lot of supporting memberships bought just to make sure their works were ranked under "No Award" on the ballot.

For the last couple of years the conversation has been "You can't complain if you don't vote" and an influx of progressive supporting voters got some very good writers from underrepresented demographics onto the ballot. (as well as just highlighting that a large social media following has correspondingly big effect.) The SP bloc is now doing the same thing in reverse, sadly in better lockstep. It'll be interesting to see if you're right and the American location manages to tip the balance in their favor but regardless I'm willing to bet Worldcon is going to get a massive financial boost from supporters this year.

Date: 2015-04-16 03:58 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I haven't seen any such analysis for the Sad Puppies supporters, but I did see recently where someone had done a survey of the political views of the pro-GamerGate crowd. The results defy the usual framing; about half identified as some form of political left, and the other half was roughly split between moderate and right.

http://gamepolitics.com/2014/12/29/editorial-gamergate-political-attitudes-part-1-movement-right-wing

Date: 2015-04-16 03:59 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Whoops, didn't realize I was posting as anonymous. This is Finrod, or fin9901@livejournal.

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